I don't think Nintendo will fall anytime soon, but I think the Wii hype train may run out of steam if they don't deliver to the people who've made Nintendo what it is in the first place.

By catering to the casaul, they cater to the attention spans of the casual. Wii obviously still has potential, but why invest in this potential if the majority of your user base doesn't particularly care about or want "hardcore" games? The good thing is I think, over time, the returns to Nintendo for investing in hardcore games relative to the returns of casual games will go up.

At least that's what I hope.

@Lone Starr,

They ARE delivering to the people who put them in a position of success. Did you somehow forget the performance of the Gamecube? How about the N64? Nintendo's hardcore gamer fanbase is a small one, it was the causal market that's allowed them to succeed as much as they have this time around.

i'm guessing nintendo will not die as a hero but rather live long enough to become a villain.

and to think back, from all the promises and wonders of the black colored Nintendo Revolution to the present day reality of the joke called Wii.

Nintendo is the new Sony. There I said it.

@ AoE,

But the thing is, the composition of casual gamers is changing -- there's a lot more females, a lot more older people, a lot of people who weren't playing the N64 and older systems.

I'm not disputing that casual gamers have put Wii where it is -- in fact that's what I'm arguing. What I'm saying is that Nintendo is making a new kind of casual game for a new kind of casual gamer, seemingly at the expense of quality IPs and the fanbase that grew up on Nintendo systems/games.

@ shmil:

have you seen the castle-vidcon webcomic...
Lord Wii is a bastard of a villain in that comic...but a very enjoyable villain...

@shmil

That right there is the best response of all time

@AoE

One might argue that Nintendo's hardcore base is large enough to keep the company alive, unlike Sega. The casual gamer didn't get Nintendo through the Nintendo 64 or the Gamecube, the loyal "hardcore" did.

The hype from Nintendo about changing the way we play games never happened. What did happen is Nintendo changing what kind of games they want people to play, and if it wasn't obvious that is not sticking with non-casual gamers. Button mashing has been replaced by flailing your arms, something I would hardly suggest is innovative. Nor is it something I find appealing.

Most "core" games either use traditional controls, are better with traditional controls or have had motion control tacked on after the fact. We need to remember most of the "core" games Nintendo releasd on the Wii actually began life on GC.

Jack:

You're right, except they don't even have anywhere near the libraries of great games that the ps1 and 2 had.

Don't forget that Nintendo never would have been in business this long without "core" gamers that continued to buy more and more games, and every single console that ever released. People like my parents and their parents come from a generation where you bought one stove, one fridge, one TV, etc. Does Nintendo think they would have bought each successive console had it not been for the core gamer of the family pushing them from behind?

The way I see it, all the moms and grand parents that bought a Wii for Wii Sports, are still playing Wii Sports, and they might not even buy the new Wii Sports period (Just like they haven't bought any other games but Wii Play yet for the extra controller). The third party developers are already pissed because of the lack of game sales on the wii (game sales that aren't first party that is) and now Nintendo has gone and segmented the market with 50 million peripherals. If some of the new, mature themed games coming down the pipe like Mad World etc, can't sell well on the Wii, we might see a massive exodus of third party developers. At the very least, all we're going to see is cheaply produced party games for the whole family, because that's all that seems to be selling.

Well, atleast I've still got Quake Wii to play. It's kinda fun with the motion controls.

I agree.

Also, I hereby quit the NDF Joystiq branch.

Fernando immediately moves from being leader-in-absence to leader and head.
Here are the rings, badges, keys and jacket.

This just PROVES without a doubt the Nintendo does NOT CARE about the hardcore. They have been working on this for a long time I bet and they did not care enough to share this with their 3rd parties. Probably so that they can sell even MORE WiiSports whatever.

OF the big 3, Nintendo is by FAR the worst of the moneygrubers.

At least MS and Sony show REAL effort in making new exciting games and new experiences with online and whatnot.

My question is,

Are these casualgamers/soccermoms/grandmas gonna buy your next console Nintendo? Thats what they are failing to see. Thats pretty much it for them. Why buy anything else? They dont play that much. In 4 or 5 years if theres a party then "hey, lets get the old Wii out" its still fun.

I dont see these casuals upgrading. Why would they? Unlike us "core gamers" (damn I hate that phrase) who are always going to look to eventually move on.

@Fenix

Nintendo cannot see past all the cash that is in front of them. They said it so themselves...Nintendo is looking at NOW, while Sony is looking at now AND 10 years down the road as is MS since they are squarely looking at Sony in trying to beat them.

Competition eeeeYEEEEESSSS!!!! (Hawk Harrelson)

Good for you Kye!

Killjebus aren't you krazy ken? If so, good to see you back.

"This just PROVES without a doubt the Nintendo does NOT CARE about the hardcore. They have been working on this for a long time I bet and they did not care enough to share this with their 3rd parties. Probably so that they can sell even MORE WiiSports whatever."

What the fuck? You post some stupid shit (and I eagerly await your next banning), but this takes the cake.
The MotionPlus device is being packaged WITH Wii Sports Resort. Not telling other developers isn't going to HELP WSR's sales, you halfwit. It's going to HURT it, if ANYTHING.

"What the fuck? You post some stupid shit (and I eagerly await your next banning),"

Keep waiting then. I am going to remain civil this time...still sarcastic at times...but civil.

@CTC, yes in the words of Michael #45...cue up fax machine

I'm BACK

"The MotionPlus device is being packaged WITH Wii Sports Resort"

Yes yes...I know this.

But do you think this will be the ONLY game Nintendo will have for the WM+ at launch? They will undoubtably have another "game" or 2 to tag along with it into Grandmas nursing home.

"But do you think this will be the ONLY game Nintendo will have for the WM+ at launch? They will undoubtably have another "game" or 2 to tag along with it into Grandmas nursing home."

I doubt it. Just like they had all those other games to go along with the Balance Board at Wii Fit's launch, right? There was We Ski, and that was made by Namco, I believe.
This isn't "arrogance" or "greed" or anything like that. It's classic, stupid Nintendo being classically, stupidly secretive.

I'm gonna laugh when the next Nintendo is a Wii 2 with 1080p output and 10 GB of solid state memory. Then all you will think it's acceptable again because apparently the resolution type and processing power is all that seems to be needed to pass you guys QA checks for TEH HARDCOORZ game systems.

Stop bitching and whining and get back to your 360/PS3. You don't hear me crying about how the 360 isn't like the Wii. BTW, 1st place is great!

Xbox 360: The Ohio State University of gaming consoles.

And another thing:

What do you guys want, the Gamecube 2? Yeah that really would ahve worked well for Nintendo. Provided they're in business to NOT make money.

Damned if they do damned if they don't.

Where am I the Player Hater's Ball? http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=24419&title=playa-haters-ball

First of all, isn't this the whole point of E3 as a trade convention?

And secondly, who's to say they've had this under their sleeves for months. The new Wii Sports games aren't exactly that hard to make. In fact some would and have said that Wii Sports in itself is a "glorified tech demo." For all we know they've got his working and well tested a few weeks ago. It's probably the reason it's coming out next year.

Get a grip already.

I guess Nintendo of Europe wasn't just an isolated incident after all.

I don't know if the Motion Plus is comparable to 32x or Sega-CD add ons. But you may mean releasing the Saturn without warning to third parties.

If devs just ignore the peripheral that most people won't have anyway I think they will be fine.

Yeah I meant the Saturn.

When Nintendo is successful they are an obnoxious, stubborn monster. It brings back memories of their early years. Particularly the 8-bit days.

"When Nintendo is successful they are an obnoxious, stubborn monster"

And people thought Sony was arrogant. At least Sony spent countless millions of the money they made off of gaming in the development of the PS3.

How much do you think Nintendo spent on developing the WiiCube?

Thanx killjebus. That's how I've been feeling, but never bothered to put into words.

Anti-Sony's have been making fun of Sony for investing so much money for its console and games that they can't even afford to buy exclusives from third-parties.

Now here we see that Nintendo is the complete opposite. Making so much money from customers, but giving back so little. Isn't THAT something that should be frowned upon?

In short;

Sony - Will try hard, but lie to you and tell you to expect more than you will get.

Nintendo - Will try `till they think they've done enough, then stop trying.

Ruining the industry? Don't blame the Nintendo philosophy for this flub. Bringing new generations into video gaming is a quality philosophy to protect against industrial stagnancy.

The thing is Curmeo is that Nintendo could have been the new Playstation if they actually tried to put out a system with some decent specs AND motion control.

They could have had the casual eating up Wii minigames whatever in glorious HD and the Hardcore experiencing Nintendo classics in HD. Can you imagine how big a Zelda or Mario would be if it looked as lifelike (in a pixar sense) as RaC TOD?

They went the super Kmart Wallmart cheapo special on the hardware AND saw so many $$ signs that they completely abandoned their loyal following AND pissing all over 3rd party developers AGAIN.

Nintendo must really enjoy shitting on 3rd party...they have been doing it for a loooooooong time.

My 1.5+ year old prediction of the Wii isnt looking so outlandish now isnt it.

If I have to read "Nintendonald's" one more time, I'll shoot someone.

Gamers come up with the worst phrases just so they can have a "cool" way to complain about stuff.

No. You're just being opportunistic. Now that it's cool to hate again (remember that, kids!), you two both crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim some sort of victory.

The betrayal of Nintendo is limited to the fact that they promised core titles that maximized their franchises, and, in a hideous bait-and-switch, failed miserably after hyping their own show. Everyone is proclaiming "abandonment," but anyone who actually pays attention and isn't just some insecure, self-proclaimed "core gamer" capitalizing on their long-standing hate for the console, realizes that they haven't abandoned us at all. If they had, would they have done Voice Chat at all? Would they have revived classic 2D Wario Land? Would they have wooed Tecmo into making Fatal Frame IV Wii exclusive through a joint effort to promote the new FF?

It's not baseless hate anymore, it's hate from people who are cherry-picking the facts, and making the keynote address the be-all and end-all of what's happening on Nintendo platforms

you're right Killjebis. seriously if Nintendonald's released the system you described, i would be an owner right now.

my main concern is the casual success of Wii is influencing 3rd party devs to shift focus from hardcore games to casual games. look at EA creating a whole seperate division for casual games. look at Ubisoft. sure right now the situation isnt dangerous but who knows how bad it will go if this Wii casual BS doesnt stop. i dont wanna have to see the day where a Final Fantasy game or something is postponed or put aside because Squeenix thought it was a better idea to make DollHouse for Wii and DS.

there's the "Nintendonald's Wii way" to do casual games and then there's the "proper way". look at Wii Sports and Wii music and then look at how Sony and MS are making casual games: LBP and Lips. i rest my case.

Curmeo, I hope you'll be satisfied when you find out the number of people I've killed not just because of your use of that absolutely moronic colloquialism, but also because of the sheer and abject stupidity and fanboyism found in your posts.

"you're right Killjebis. seriously if Nintendonald's released the system you described, i would be an owner right now."

I would too.

@Mr. Khan,

I am not crawling out of the woodwork, I was still coming to this site pretty much everyday just reading the posts. I decided to stay away for a while and now I decided to come back. The veil is being lifted and the Burqua is coming off and people and developers are seeing the Wii as she truely is...OLD, WEAK, and UGLY.

I said this would happen, as did Curmeo, as did Shiggy...then majority said we were KAYrazy but now it appears that in one week, Nintendo has pissed off CoreGamers AND developers. Those two combined can and probably will come back to bite Mario on his plumbers Kayrack REALLY hard.

No good real concerted efforts by 3rd party is BAAAAD news for Nintendo whether they know it or not.

Are we still whining about Nintendo? How fun.

I seriously hope that Curmeo and Killjebus get shot. They're the type of people that will decide they like Burger King so much more than McDonald's and just to show their dominance and how cool their selected greasy burger is, would fight to the death in Crusader-like fashion to defend it.

I really wish that all of the fanboys would go to the fanboy specific sub-sites and leave the main site to people that aren't assclowns.

Really CuRedRobins? got anything other than Nintendonalds?

Also, LBP casual? Lips? Nobody is going to buy lips because you've already got SingStar, and LBP is NOT casual, its just not "hardcore" either.

Also, nobody seems to mind when Shane Kim showed off You're In the Movies or Viva Pinata or Banjoo Kazooie: Who Really Gives a Fuck Anymore.

If Nintendo(nalds) is ruining gaming, they sure as hell got Microsoft to hope aboard the bandwagon.

Also, STFU about "core gamers". Nintendos "core" (jesus I HATE that word) this generation IS the casual gamer. GameCube flopped, Nintendo knew that. Why? THEY TRIED TO FOCUS ON THE HARDCORE GAMER. And they realized there are only so many "1337" freeks out on this Earth, but there are an endless supply of Parents and people who just want to sit back and enjoy a game that may or may not have an objective to it.

Also, If Wii= 2 Gamecubes, then 360=2 XBOXs, DS=2 GBA, etc. Thats the natural progression of consoles. Sony PS4 is going to be a PS3 with new features (YELLO-RAY FTW!)

Donald - though you may feel you are justified, I don't think wishing death on people for not being fanboys to your console of choice is anything but hypocritical.

Shaq-Fu, hate to break it to you, but Nintendo hasn't been failing on the last generations because they focused too much onthe hardcore fanbase, that is just one utterly stupid excuse.

And also, Sony has been focusing on both the hardcore and casual, and guess what? they didn't do nearly as much damage as Nintendo has, in such a short time, to their hardcore fanbase...

"I seriously hope that Curmeo and Killjebus get shot."

I have no problem with that...as long as the gun you or someone else uses contains the SAME bullets that Nintendo fired at E3 08.

BTW,

thanks you for your love and support.