pandora HDD i would buy ps3...

Backup much?

The rrod didn't cause data to be lost. You don't even send them you HD when they repair it - so backing up wasn't needed by him.

@ Brodie-san

????

...why?

Brodie, I don't know if you could restore a full system backup to a new console. I know that Singstar DLC, for example, can't be copied/used on another console. You could be backing up your game saves to SD cards though, that may be what you meant. This is a good idea, I do it somewhat often.

"Backup much?"

Its a fucking video game console, not a pc.

Woah, such hostility. Take it easy guys. I was just joking. Jebus.

(Though I do take a copy of my files every so often, and why not?)

@Deaddy

Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Before I do any firmware update I take a snap of my game saves. Probably because I'm a pessimist.
:)

@ Brodie

Just Shut up and Die

@Fanboy

For you?
No.

Hey now, leave Brodie-san alone. Can't you see that he PLAYS B3YOND?

:P

"Its a fucking video game console, not a pc."

No lad, it's a fucking video game console and a PC. The console is a personal device and it does computing with a microprocessor. Two out of the three even have hard drives.

You might pine for the days of a dedicated Pong console, but those days are gone. Consoles are adopting more and more general purpose tasks apart from "pure" gaming. Suck it up and don't knock the prudent people using an optional backup utility. You do know that one rating for hard drives is Mean Time Between Failures right?

Thanks Fenix!

I should say that I'm also an equal opportunity gamer. You'll find Nintendo and Microsoft (and even Sega) consoles in my house too.

And I've been critical of Sony when they mess up. Like now. And, you know, not having trophies etc. in the first place which was a massive oversight.

Competition and collecting stuff. Two human nature traits that were underrated by Sony. Ah well, at least it's there now and will continue to be. Speaking of which, time I headed home and started that (backup and) update.
:)

i dont know why everyone is flipping out so much about backing up some of your saves (deaftly). i mean honestly, even when i had my old ps3 2 mb mem cards back in the day, i had a sony brand which i always used for saves, then some cheap ass no name on that i used for backups. with all the gran turismo endurance races, i always feared the worse.

"In the case of the PS3 I think there aren't custom firmwares, suckage."

Yeah, but considering how burned they were by PSP piracy I can't hold it against them to be super-careful about firmware vulnerabilities.

Of course, I suspect that BD would shield them for a time against any large scale piracy. I doubt they give a shit about homebrew (unofficially).

clever

Nice one.

No, I think he was asking why someone with a 360 would need to back-up. You have a PS3 and not a 360 right? So, refer to what we said above - you don't need to back-up the 360 HD if the unit goes down from rrod. The HD is a seperate and detachable item.

Apologies, I was referring to his first statement.

"Wow, so you just lose every saved game? Suck."

I wasn't referring to the 360 at all.
:(

Hmmmmm... that's a good idea. I personally have a couple of thumbdrives doing absolutely nothing right now (and I would hate to lose my Oblivion and GTA IV saves).

Unfortunately, any sort of firmware update for pretty much any device carries with it a risk of bricking. So either you accept the risk or you never get an update ever. I'll take the updates myself. But they, Sony in this case, should be responsible for fixing (for free) bricked devices that are a result of the upgrade itself. If the brick happened due to a power outage or something similar then the consumer should pay to have it fixed (IMO).

I certainly agree that if the bricking wasn't caused by Sony, the owner should be responsible for the repair/replacement.

My big thing is, why do users have to agree to these risk assumption clauses? The idea of bricking is a relatively new phenomenon in the history of technology. It's pretty absurd, if you step back and think about it, that you can buy a piece of technology that is fully functional, then the manufacturer "improves" it by breaking it. What are we gonna do when more critical pieces of technology, like cars or hospital equipment, suddenly seize up because some automatic over-the-air update bricked it? It can get pretty complicated legally I suppose, and this ain't the place for that kind of discussion, but I just find the whole idea pretty ridiculous.

"My big thing is, why do users have to agree to these risk assumption clauses? The idea of bricking is a relatively new phenomenon in the history of technology."

False, bricking by update is actually something that, although at a low rate, does happen quite often.

Thing is, like someone mentioned earlier, let's say you have 10'000 people that spend about 3 months testing, they won't be able to find/encounter every single problem, but the millions of customers will...

Hell, and like I said, this isnt something new, its just that because it has just started happening with this generation of videogame consoles that we are paying that much attention. There are even times in which the problems aren't even found til months afterwards

Yes, this isn't acceptable, but it is something that does happen to anything that is made by human hands...

"False, bricking by update is actually something that, although at a low rate, does happen quite often."

Maybe I should have clarified what I meant by "history of technology." Not too many bricked chariots back in the day from firmware updates, were there? Didn't think so. That's what I meant by "recent." In terms of the history of technology law, its a relatively recent phenomenon.

I'm not saying it ain't gonna happen, or indeed that it shouldn't happen. It might be a trade-off that we just have to accept in order to achieve certain advances in certain technologies. This idea wouldn't be new. However, at some point the legal system will have to create certain boundaries for these companies to work within, or else it could get out of control. In the absence of certain market motivators, the law has often stepped in to fill the gap and "convince" manufacturers to put a little more time and effort into their products.

Now, it may be a court would decide that a specific manufacturer, and we'll just use Sony as an example here, did everything they could and should have to do, and that ultimately the risk falls on the consumer. Courts have certainly held this in certain areas. However, they've also held in favor of the consumer. My whole point with my OP was that it would be interesting to see a legal test case come up where a court examined this issue and decided who actually bears the risk and the burden for firmware or other "updates" that turn your functioning product into a useless brick.

"However, at some point the legal system will have to create certain boundaries for these companies to work within...the law has often stepped in to fill the gap and "convince" manufacturers to put a little more time and effort into their products."

The legal system is reactive, not proactive. And unless you're a lawsuit happy malcontent, then Sony, Microsoft, or whomever has to first have a chance to redress the problem. So question #1 is have there been any bricked consoles without any solution to fix them?

Now if the solution involves a long and dangerous trek to a remote lab in the Himalayas then that might also be a legal matter.

But if I understand it right, the solution in this case is to send in the hard drive or format it yourself. So is Sony liable for the loss of data that didn't come with the purchased system? They might be, but the reason the economy still functions is that not everyone thinks it is worth their time to pursue small issues.

If you don't feel that way, then you can follow the path of the squeeky wheel. That often generates results, or you can join the Consumer Reports Foundation and other causes dedicated to civil policing.

Not everything needs to be enforced by a court order. That's a bitchy road to go down, and should be a last resort for anyone.

"Not everything needs to be enforced by a court order. That's a bitchy road to go down, and should be a last resort for anyone."

For sure. I was thinking of the legal aspects of the problem in more abstract and theoretical terms. My ultimate point of view, that "eventually somebody is going to have to figure out a way to hold these stupid companies accountable for breaking your hardware" still stands. That accountability might come from courts, and I think that would be an interesting thing to follow. Indeed, to your point, that would be the legal system working at its reactive best.

However, there are many more ways in which the solution can be achieved, not the least of which is natural market forces. I'm not about to sue anyone - I don't even own a PS3 (though I own other pieces of technology that are susceptible to "bricking"). The problem has many sides, I was just trying to address the academic legal side. There are many more economic and social sides to the puzzle, and perhaps the best solutions will, and need, to come from those disciplines.

"Not everything needs to be enforced by a court order. That's a bitchy road to go down, and should be a last resort for anyone."

For sure. I was thinking of the legal aspects of the problem in more abstract and theoretical terms. My ultimate point of view, that "eventually somebody is going to have to figure out a way to hold these stupid companies accountable for breaking your hardware" still stands. That accountability might come from courts, and I think that would be an interesting thing to follow. Indeed, to your point, that would be the legal system working at its reactive best.

However, there are many more ways in which the solution can be achieved, not the least of which is natural market forces. I'm not about to sue anyone - I don't even own a PS3 (though I own other pieces of technology that are susceptible to "bricking"). The problem has many sides, I was just trying to address the academic legal side. There are many more economic and social sides to the puzzle, and perhaps the best solutions will, and need, to come from those disciplines.

meh - sorry about the double post

just to pop in my 2 cents, I would say that the reason "bricking" is sort of new in the technology field is that firmware updates are relatively new in the technology field. While it's true that computer parts makers have been releasing firmware updates and driver updates for decades, very few "common" people bothered to update their equipment. Gamers have been updating their video card drivers forever but what about 15 yr old Betty or 40 yr old grocery clerk, not so much. Now with the advent of gaming consoles always connected to the internet and the companies behind those consoles using that as an opportunity to make their products better, you're going to see a significantly larger amount of bricking incidents in the future.

I don't know man, even with the NES you had to blow something just to get it to work half the time.

Nintendo64 was a beast. It ALWAYS worked. Dont remember any probs with mah Dreamcast either.

Game saves have to be on the PS3 hard drive and you can't script any kind of automated backup, unfortunately.

However, it's really 100% trivial to backup your game saves to any old USB thumb drive or memory card before doing an update, and it's probably a good practice for everyone to get in the habit of doing.

I heard she delegated it off to the Moth Man.

*sigh*
...never trust a winged disaster-monster to do a sprite's job.

Man, whatever happened to blowing the dust outta ur fav console being the quick fix? :(

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w12/chri360/Blowme_normal.jpg

My disc drive broke on my 360 and I replaced it myself. If it RROD you can also fix that yourself. Spend some time on the interwebs and you can fix damn near anything.

Just takes a little cash and a little know-how.